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The Mary Ellen O’Connell and Benjamin Wittes Debate on Targeted Killing and Drone Warfare

Interest in targeted killing and drone warfare is not letting up in intensity to judge by the pace of events on the topic. Right on top of my debate with Mary Ellen O'Connell on this at Washington University two weeks ago, Mary Ellen and Ben Wittes undertook another one, this past Saturday at International Law Weekend in New York.  It was considerably more testy than the Washington University debate.  Some in the audience were unhappy with the confrontational nature of the exchange; some thought it refreshingly direct; my view is the latter and congratulations to Vincent Vitkowsky for an excellent job of moderating the debate.  I'm sure it will generate a lot of interest and a lot of pushback in several directions.  Ben has posted up video of the event at Lawfare. Ben has also added a second post with some transcription, specifically on the question of whether, if one takes Mary Ellen's statements at what they say, Barack Obama is not therefore a "serial killer" for having directly ordered the CIA to carry out what Mary Ellen characterizes as "crimes" and Harold Koh at the least an aider and abetter.  Ben has in mind, for example, statements in Mary Ellen's widely noticed article, "Unlawful Killing with Combat Drones," which among other things declares that "members of the CIA are not lawful combatants and their participation in killing—even in an armed conflict—is a crime."  One might argue Ben's choice of provocative words in the debate - serial killing - or one might argue various technical points over whether it is murder or not murder, whether or not there can be the proper intent given the presumed opinions of many lawyers advising inside the government (many of those questions came up, of course, in the detention-interrogation-rendition arguments as well).  His fundamental point is to say, as far as I understand it (and if I do, I agree), if you declare that CIA participation is a crime, then it follows that somewhere there is a perpetrator.  Not to go after him or her is to permit impunity; it is not a matter of saying, well, you are committing crimes, but all we want to do is persuade you to change your policies going forward to bring you into compliance with international law.  Crime is a charge of more than mere non-compliance.  If there is a crime, someone must be responsible for doing it, whether you call it murder, criminal extrajudicial execution, what have you. And whether one calls these crimes serial killing, murder, extrajudicial execution, etc., they are still a large number of killings. It's not the kind of crime that just happens to be a tort or civil infraction criminalized, but for which as a regulatory matter one can simply agree not to do it any more, like various of the lesser environmental "crimes" for which corporations routinely pay criminal fines in the domestic United States.  Killing is not like that, presumably, at least not when it's systematic, systemic, large-scale, and under direct orders. The article by Mary Ellen specifically says who commits a crime - members of the CIA.  Yet they are not acting as rogues in this, but rather under direct orders of the President.  If it is correct to call the acts a crime, then it is correct to identify the criminals, and those criminals will have to include those who ordered them to do the crimes.  So what is it to be?  I think it a salutary reminder that one ought to be careful in cranking up the machinery of international criminal law over contested interpretations of international law. One risks either over-invoking it or trivializing it or both.  I take it that was Ben's larger point in seeking to force the question onto the table by insisting on using an ordinary, non-legal term like serial killing.