05 Nov Yeah, It’s Just Like That.
05.11.09
|
21 Comments
The depths to which the extreme right will sink to oppose offering quality healthcare to all Americans really knows no bounds:
Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.
P.S. In case you can’t read the sign on your computer, it reads “National Socialist Health Care: Dachau, Germany – 1945.”
Unbelievable……..But then in the age of Glenn Beck, anything is possible I guess.
I do not understand how any Jew can look at this and support these freaks.
Mr. Heller, how many times have you compared Bush administration officials to Nazis in this blog?
Jeff,
That’s easy — zero.
Kevin
(1) Do you believe that the beliefs and sentiments of the protesters opposing health care legislation are typified by those of them who invoke Nazi Germany?
(2) Do you believe that Nazi imagery and analogies are more typical of the tea partiers and health care legislation opponents than they were of the anti-Iraq War protesters?
(3) Do you believe that the anti-Iraq war movement and the numerous protesters of the Bush administration were civilly illegitimate – that their views were beyond the pale of reasonable political discourse – given the invocation of Nazi imagery and analogies at their rallies?
http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=612
(You can skip the commentary at the link and just scroll down)
Nathan,
Probably not, but the numbers are still extremely disturbing. Yes, absolutely. And the number of “mainstream” Republican leaders who happily appear in front of protesters carrying such signs dwarfs the number of Democratic leaders who did the same. Yes, also absolutely — although using Nazi imagery to compare Bush’s wars of aggressions to Hitler’s, while not particularly helpful, are far less objectionable than comparing health-care reform to the systematic extermination of the Jews.
Kevin
I probably wasn’t clear enough on my (3). I did not mean to ask whether you believe that the particular Iraq War protesters who invoked Nazi Germany were beyond the pale of reasonable discourse but rather whether you believe that the anti-war movement as a whole could be written off as having nothing legitimate to say because some of those in its ranks used Nazi imagery.
No, of course not. But that imagery was at the margins of the anti-war movement, whereas Nazi imagery — and racist imagery, and allegations of socialism, and allegations of communism, etc. — are at the very heart of the anti-health-care movement, as indicated by the fact that numerous Republican senators and representatives had no problem appearing at the rally, literally feet from the sign.
Good point Kevin.
The reason why Republicans have no problem with the sign is because they have close ties with the people who organize these rallies.
If anyone resembles a fascist movement it’s the people holding up the signs.
“Nazi imagery — and racist imagery, and allegations of socialism, and allegations of communism, etc. — are at the very heart of the anti-health-care movement, as indicated by the fact that numerous Republican senators and representatives had no problem appearing at the rally, literally feet from the sign.”
Saying that this sign is “Nazi imagery” is profoundly dishonest. It is anti-Nazi imagery. The protesters disagree with the current health-care bill: it requires that each market offer insurance policies that cover abortion. They think that abortion is murder, and they fear that in a few months the United States will be on the road to another holocaust. Whether they are fools or prophets, calling their sign nazi imagery is the lowest form of slur.
It is especially meretricious since you claim to never do this sort of thing in the fourth comment above.
It seems to me that since you agree that the beliefs and sentiments of the protesters opposing health care legislation are “probably not” typified by those of them who invoke Nazi Germany, it is inconsistent to claim that “Nazi imagery [is] at the very heart of the anti-health-care movement.” As to whether such imagery is more prevalant among the anti-health care legislation protesters than it was in the anti-war movement, I respectfully submit that you have no reliable means of knowing. The link I provided amply demonstrates that if, in covering the anti-war movement, one wanted to discredit it by emphasizing the loons, it could certainly have been done. But even if you do not concede that particular point, it remains the case that a movement that is not typified by loons, and that attracts significant public engagement, has something legitimate to say. If I may characterize “the heart” of the anti-health care reform movement, it is as follows: (a) Belief that the proposed reforms will result – sooner or later – in effective government control of health care (b) Distrust that government control will result in a quality of care equal to or better than that which is typical… Read more »
Mr. Hall,
However strongly you may feel about abortion, legitimizing Nazi analogies does not help you make your case. Does the public pay any attention to protesters who shout that those who want to outlaw abortion are interested in Nazi-like control of womens’ bodies?
Well, since it appears that we have a lull in the fighting over Karadzic (and yes, i am still looking through details of Malta, Tokyo, Nuremberg, etc. al for the point, and I will respond once I am through), this looks like a good time to open another front. Okeee… here’s the disclaimer: Before ANYBODY accuses me otherwise, I am neither a birther (absolutely slim chance? Sure. Probable chance? Absolutely not, and I do believe that most invoking it are looking for an easy out rather than actually considering the legal issues of what would happen if it WERE true, and while I do believe there are some complications in the matter, I- and this may come as a shock to some of you- actually DO believe in innocent before guilty, and I haven’t seen anything remotely like concrete proof discrediting Obama’s claim that he was born in Hawaii, and what evidence I have seen seems to actually support that claim), nor an “Obama is a Fascist” member (he strikes me more as the typical big-government Liberal such as LBJ or Wilson, rather than like a latter-day Hitler or even a latter=day Chavez. His connections are somewhat disturbing, but he… Read more »
Do you have morning-after regrets for a post like this?
[insert here]: Delenda est:
Do you mean myself or Mr. Heller?
Wow. There is a “slim chance” Obama isn’t qualified to be president. Death panels “won’t come in now,” but will later. Hitler was really a leftist.
Just wow.
Nathan, what kind of people tolerated that sign instead of booing those holding it?
Mr. Heller: If that is your strategy for rebutting argumetns in trial, I am deeply concerned about your client being adaquately represented. “There is a “slim chance” Obama isn’t qualified to be president.” Nope, that’s a near certainty, given his actions. The issue is whether he was Constitutionally elligable under the “natural born citizen” point, which I honestly believe he was. My quarrels with him elsewhere. “Death panels “won’t come in now,” but will later.” Have you EVER seen the running of a typical “ethics committee” in Canada or Britian? These are boards that literally have to make the decisions of where the scare resources go, who gets them, and who doesn’t. While there are a few Corporate ones here, the ones in a nation with government-provided health care are truly a different breed. And believe it or not, after all I have seen, I still admire them for the work they must do on a shoestring, with paltry resources that no American company DREAM of utilizing. But it doesn’t change what they are forced to do day in and day out. And it also doesn’t change the fact that such institutions are largely brought to prominance by the dearth that accompanies a government annexation in health care like the one being proposed. “Hitler was really a leftist.” Have you… Read more »
Sarcasm does not compute very well over the internet, does it?
Anderson:
“Nathan, what kind of people tolerated that sign instead of booing those holding it?”
From my “lovely” experiences with political rallies, probably the kool-aid battalion of the Right, much like the Kool Aid Battalion of the Left.
Sadly, they are far more numerous than I would like to think about.
A: What “sarcasm?” Unless you are Mr. Heller, how can you tell that he is being sarcastic, particularly given his previous habits (it is telling he lingered far more on the RSK/RS problem- which was not entirely unjustified- than he did over all of my other points put together, save for towards the very end)?
Hitler didn’t institute public health care in Germany.
Germany has the oldest health care system in the world, starting with Bismarck’s policies, which included the 1883 Health Insurance Bill, the 1884 Accident Insurance Bill and the 1889 Old Age and Disability Bill of 1889.