The most important human right in our lifetime

The most important human right in our lifetime

If we consider the quantity of people affected and the quality of the effect, there is no greater injustice in the world today than the denial of equal rights for women. I’m talking specifically about women in fundamentalist Muslim countries in the Middle East. I am also talking about women in fundamentalist Catholic countries in Latin America, although the situation in the Muslim world is worse.

Add in the negative effect upon men. I for one find it painful to spend any time in a country that regards its women as a sub-species of homo sapiens. I cannot enjoy a few hours in such places, not even in their airports on my way somewhere else. How can any male person be happy when there are women in his vicinity who at that very moment in time are the victims of barbaric discrimination?

But what about the feelings of men from Islamic countries who come to the United States for college or graduate work? Don’t they feel equally unhappy in the presence of American women? No, they don’t. They enjoy it here very much. And they acclimate themselves almost overnight to our egalitarian culture and “groove” with it.

I did some work a few years ago for some women who were in “Divided Families,” as Ted Koppel called it his Nightline show that interviewed me. The scenario is more or less the same irrespective of the Middle Eastern country we’re talking about. An American woman meets an Arab in the United States, they get married, she converts to Islam, and they eventually move to the husband’s home country. Here’s a typical story told to me by one of my clients. The man she met in engineering school was a “real Omar Sharif type”—dashing, sophisticated, charming, and totally attentive to her. He shared fully in their household chores, was a great dad when they had a child, never argued with her, and worked out their minor problems on the basis of mutual respect and understanding. When they arrived back at his familial home in Riyadh, he started beating her. He locked her in her bedroom, placed tin foil over the windows, took away the light bulbs, and left her in the sweltering darkness. No food, a glass of water, two or three days of this.

I repeat, this is a typical story. All my clients, and all their friends who married Islamic men, had almost identical experiences.

The young wife would next seek out the grandmother figure of the family group. The matriarch would give her friendly advice: just please your husband and do everything he says. Everything will turn out just fine. But, the young woman asks, what about the beatings? “He still loves you. He is only disciplining you.”

Another of my clients (I call them clients because I had a confidentiality relationship with them though my work was pro bono) could stand her situation no longer. With meticulous planning, she left her house one morning when her husband went to work, made it to the school where she had excuses prepared to take her children home, got into a car driven by a friend, and made it to the American embassy in Riyadh. The Americans working in the embassy could not have been more sympathetic or helpful, she told me. She did not understand why it was taking them so long just to put her and her children on a plane to the United States; she had the money for the tickets. Cables hummed from the United States to Saudi Arabia and back. Finally, on the fourth day, two Marines assisted her and the children into a Jeep. She asked if they were going to the airport but they said nothing. They pulled up in front of her home, where her husband was standing there, glaring at them. She looked at the soldiers. “We’re sorry, ma’am, we’re only doing our job.” They left her and the children there and drove away.

Clearly there are two totally different Weltanshauungen here: the Western worldview and the Muslim worldview. They seem remote from each other both in space and in time. Is communication between the two even possible?

The lawyerly thing to do is to begin by trying to understand the other side’s point of view. I have a few thoughts about this which I’ll post tomorrow.

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It’s no surprise that International Law has a relatively feeble (though thankfully improving) reputation as a rigorous intellectual discipline when its leading thinkers bolster nebulous, incoherent, philosophically idealist and wildly ideological constructions like ‘The Clash of Civilisations’, let alone in so profoundly weak a way. Here we have an anecdote, vigorously if unscientifically suffixed with the assurance that it is ‘typical’, bolted on to crass generalisation on religious/ethnic grounds (the distinction is blurred in the post – ‘Islamic’ to ‘Middle Eastern’): ‘They’, foreign Muslim men, ‘enjoy it here very much.’ All of them? Which of them? How so?

If, talking about Jews, African-Americans or Hispanics, I told readers what ‘they’ like and dislike (or think of women’s rights), I’d rightly be excoriated as at best foolish, at worst prejudiced. I digress.

So then by some magic of addition anecdote plus generalisation equals the conclusion that there are two ‘totally different’ worldviews, implausibly homogenised as ‘Western’ and ‘Muslim’. This was nonsense in the hands of Huntington, and it’s nonsense here.

If the ‘lawyerly’ thing to do is indeed to understand the other side’s point of view, then this is a poor start.

Antiluminous
Antiluminous

Professor D’Amato, Sir, respectfully I must disagree with this thread post that you made. From the start this one sentence sent chills down my spine: Professor D’Amato said: [If we consider the quantity of people affected and the quality of the effect, there is no greater injustice in the world today than the denial of equal rights for women.] Equal rights for women is not a problem in the west. It is a problem in Islamic countries and other cultures, but NOT the west and not in “Catholic” countries. If you are going to adhere to such a claim that Catholic countries are demeaning to women, we need to see some examples because what you are doing is putting Catholicism on the shelf with Islam which to me is a shoddy position since there is no comparison between the two. The United States for example, lives under the lie that women are a minority population when they are clearly the majority. In our democracy, women comprise almost 53% of the voting population. No US political candidate is elected without the consent of women. Radical leftist women’s groups have a much greater share of political power than any men’s group or… Read more »

BionOc
BionOc

Oh come *on*, D’Amato. Since when does recycling the plot of a Lifetime Original Movie of the Week (undoubtedly starring Meredith Baxter-Birney as the poor Western woman, independent and modern but with a fatal romantic streak, swept off her feet by a handsome Arab only to find him Turned To A Tyrant and herself a Virtual Prisoner in Riyadh! Where is the man she fell in love with™?) count as thoughtful cultural criticism? Protestations of anger on behalf of women are all very well, but this particular woman doesn’t appreciate your using my half of the species as a pretext for essentialist Muslim-baiting, particularly not while taking so very much time along the way to self-congratulate for your sensitivity. I’m sure we’re all impressed by your delicate sensibilities when it comes to spending time in the airports of sexist countries; would that you displayed similar sensitivity when it came to making wild derogatory generalizations about other cultures. Does traditional Islam embed problematic, often anathema attitudes towards women? Hell yes. Does your crass caricaturization of Muslim culture ‘irrespective of the Middle Eastern country we’re talking about’ contribute anything meaningful to the struggle to improve the lot of Muslim women in bad… Read more »

Antiluminous
Antiluminous

Bionoc said: [As for you, Obtestor, you’re an insane misogynist conspiracy-minded wingnut who is beneath debate. I’m guessing–this is just a guess, mind–you don’t get much play with the ladies, and it’s all gone a bit sour and bubbly up there in your little overheated brainpan.]

Translation: How dare you bring up the truths about the feminist dictatorship and political violence against men in the United States. If you persist, other men might figure it out.

American feminisnm today is political violence against men. I say that with a swab of meninist in me. I am also good looking and never have trouble getting dates with women (plus I am a genius intellect as well so that helps too).

Obtestor

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Oh for goodness’ sake – let’s get past the petty school-boy debating insults and actually talk about the issue(s) at hand shall we? Firstly I think Prof. D’Amato’s post is badly argued and badly reasoned. I find myself particularly uncomfortable with arguments relating to the veil, domestic violence, Shariah Law etc… being used as a premise for ideological and legal attacks on Islamic countries. I certainly agree that there are severe gender disparities in the vast majority of Muslim states but (a) unbalanced gender relations are not unique to muslim states, and (b) the continual cynical manipulation by men of women’s situations in order to justifify the use of force against other nations and civilisations is patriarchal and disingenuous in general. This ‘debate’ is so petty that I can hardly bother to engage by expanding on those two points, but as a general point relating to women’s rights argumentation a factual basis around honour crimes, rape, lack of sexual freedom, lack of equality within marriage etc… is far more effective than the recollection of anecdote. That is not to say that experiences should not be shared and discussed, they certainly should be (from both a personal, practical and feminist perspective),… Read more »

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BTW obtestor – islam and catholicism have some very clear parallels:

* They are both religions
* They both have/do overtaken/displaced notions of secularism in government in a number of states
* They both retain a power base through the repression of women and particularly female sexuality.
* They are both male-dominated pervasive institutions

To give you an example of Catholicism and human rights (generally having a disproportionately damaging effect on women and girl children) let me take my own country, Ireland, where, as a result of the Catholic ethos of our Constitution, abortion is illegal often putting women’s lives at risk (one has to travel to the UK for an abortion which is expensive and as a result there are many cases of illegal abortions in the back alleys of Dublin and other Irish cities often resulting in sceptic wombs and infertility), up until 1973 contraception was absolutely illegal, up until 1996 divorce was illegal, up until 1994 homosexuality was illegal, up until 1986 children born outside of a catholic-recognised marriage had no legal status etc… etc…

Antiluminous
Antiluminous

Fiona said: [As for yourself obtestor *rolling eyes*…your lady friends are welcome to you!!!!] I love women and women love me. I do not however sign onto any level of extremism nor extremist group agenda no matter how slight the radicalization appears. There are plenty of feminist groups that fit that description. Then La Bamba said: [ BTW obtestor – islam and catholicism have some very clear parallels.] Not even close. Does Catholicism have the institutional access that Islam does in government? No way. Does Catholicism use cult-tools (involuntary tools for membership) for brainwashing and imposing tyrannical controls and fear over populations through methods of control such as the call to prayer (5 times per day using loud speakers?) No way. Does Catholicism force circumcision upon women? No way. Does Catholicism impose any coercion upon women realistically in the west? Not really. Women can walk away from the church as quickly as they have abortions. Your argument is a straw man but there is more that I want to talk about in relation to the other points that you bring up next. Then you said: [* They are both religions] True [* They both have/do overtaken/displaced notions of secularism in… Read more »

BionOc
BionOc

Well girls, see what we get for trying to actually ‘talk about the issues at hand’ with someone like that? Petty schoolboy debating insults, anyone? I’ll be at the bar when y’all are finished.

Antiluminous
Antiluminous

[Well girls, see what we get for trying to actually ‘talk about the issues at hand’ with someone like that? Petty schoolboy debating insults, anyone? I’ll be at the bar when y’all are finished.]

Appeal to popularity logic fallacy.

Obtestor

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Obtestor – you neglect to remember that the United States is not the only country in the world.

Your ideological leanings are perfectly valid, and your postrgaduate education is impressive. Perhaps we can compare transcripts sometime. No amount of transcripts in the world will stop me being a feminist whose seen many women’s lives destroyed by pervasive catholic influence and you from being a man (who I would describe as misogynist) with a strong sense of belief in his religion and a US-centric view on things.

But just one tiny tiny point – if the call to prayer is ‘brain washing’ then what is the angelus twice a day????

Fiona

Antiluminous
Antiluminous

[No amount of transcripts in the world will stop me being a feminist whose seen many women’s lives destroyed by pervasive catholic influence and you from being a man (who I would describe as misogynist) with a strong sense of belief in his religion and a US-centric view on things.] Fiona, try not to fall into the trap that the others here fall into quickly. Is it because I critiqued certain perversions within feminist totalitarianism that I am “misogynist”? I don’t hate women. A misognyist must hate women. It is easy to throw words around like that to demonize educated men like me so that you can dehumanize us. That is what those terms are all about. Dehumanizing tools to make men like me less than human. Know that the petty name calling doesn’t bother me. I have very thick skin. My skin is almost as thick as my transcripts. 😉 So if you can cast off the emotion for a moment and look at what I wrote instead of trying to imagine the man behind the keyboard that wrote it, you would conclude that I am correct in my analysis that a new form of totalitarianism in the west… Read more »

Antiluminous
Antiluminous

[But just one tiny tiny point – if the call to prayer is ‘brain washing’ then what is the angelus twice a day????]

Why don’t we address all of my points? Every single one of them, together. You and I Fiona.

Any member of the Catholic Church can decide for themselves the level of participation that they seek to give to the church and its efforts individually. I know baptised Catholics that haven’t been to church in years; some for decades.

Does Islam grant women that flexibility in the respecting of God as it applies to the state? Absolutely not. Even if an Islamic female is an atheist or agnostic, that female will hear the call to prayer five times per day and will have to ‘disappear’ to avoid the tradition from the rest of her society. At the same time, the female will have to wear a veil and other tedious garments to cover every inch of her skin. That totalitarianism and cult-behavior used by Islamic nation-states to erect police state controls in their societies is not to be confused with Catholicism.

Saying Islam is like Catholicism is like saying Joseph Stalin was a Capitalist.

Obtestor

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Obtestor I can never resist a challenge!! Obtestor said: [I do not however sign onto any level of extremism nor extremist group agenda no matter how slight the radicalization appears. There are plenty of feminist groups that fit that description.] That’s undeniable – just like there are plenty of groups who call themselves by political ideologies and who are extremist. I think a distinction needs to be made between feminism as a political and intellectual movement (taking into account the many strands of feminist theory and their differences) and groups that appropriate feminism in their actions. Just as many environmental groups take sometimes extremist direct action but don’t automatically lead to all environmentalists being called extremists, so too feminist groups that take extreme actions or publish ‘extreme’ views should not automatically lead to all feminists being called extremists. Obtestor said: [Does Catholicism have the institutional access that Islam does in government? No way.] Maybe not in the USA but in many countries yes, absolutely – think of Ireland up to…oh…about 14 years ago. Think of the Philipines today. Very very often Catholicism does have that kind of access, particularly since in many countries the catholic church assumed an educational and… Read more »

Antiluminous
Antiluminous

Fiona said: [ Obtestor I can never resist a challenge!!] Outstanding! Come on in! Fiona Said: [That’s undeniable – just like there are plenty of groups who call themselves by political ideologies and who are extremist. I think a distinction needs to be made between feminism as a political and intellectual movement (taking into account the many strands of feminist theory and their differences) and groups that appropriate feminism in their actions. Just as many environmental groups take sometimes extremist direct action but don’t automatically lead to all environmentalists being called extremists, so too feminist groups that take extreme actions or publish ‘extreme’ views should not automatically lead to all feminists being called extremists.] That is true to an extent. Look at it this way. Americans connect to each other through political alliances because all that politics is in America is the conflict over limited resources. Now, let me use National Socialist Germany as an example in an anology. I am sure that there were a handful of nice Germans that lived in Germany during the reign of Adolf Hitler. The fact that there were a handful of nice Germans living in Germany however did not detract from the responsibility… Read more »

Antiluminous
Antiluminous

Fiona, here is a good example of feminists not relinquishing political power to balance minority power (male power).

The renewal of the VAWA is coming up. That means $billions of US tax dollars for women’s groups that are involved in domestic violence issues.

Not one penny of that money if VAWA gets renewed will go to male victims of domestic violence.

Since men and women commit domestic violence, it is clear that the majority voting population (women) is expressing abnormal levels of political power in the nation-state, whereby the renewal of the VAWA is certainly payback for candidate loyalty while men receive nothing.

Obtestor

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F

*sigh*

this debate is going nowhere
I spent much of the last twenty minutes shaking my head at your responses and wondering how two people who seem to have a fairly similar educational and religious background could be so different.

Game over. It’s a draw. And D’Amato has posted a second installment…

Fiona

Antiluminous
Antiluminous

Fiona,

Don’t you dare quit on me lol. Get back here. I know that it can be tough to take a few steps back and peer into deteriorations in a system that is supposed to protect everyone.

There isn’t a single day that goes by where I don’t bow my head in shame at the legislative and judicial fiascos that are appearing in our country.

If we can’t identify these issues together, they become festering sores upon the soul of the nation and revolutionary preconditions.

So skipping everything but the last topic, how is the VAWA constitutional law when male victims of domestic violence do not get a single penny of the $billions allocated to the majority voting population of women?

Obtestor

D'Amato
D'Amato

BionOc said “Oh come *on*, D’Amato. Since when does recycling the plot of a Lifetime Original Movie of the Week (undoubtedly starring Meredith Baxter-Birney as the poor Western woman, independent and modern but with a fatal romantic streak, swept off her feet by a handsome Arab only to find him Turned To A Tyrant and herself a Virtual Prisoner in Riyadh! Where is the man she fell in love with™?) count as thoughtful cultural criticism?”

They got that plot from of one of my clients who told them her story. My client provided the plot, you’re the one who’s recycling it.

— D’Amato

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Nope – I fold – but we live to debate another day.
As for VAWA – listen, as I have already said a number of times, I’m not American, I don’t know about it and I won’t pretend to!!!

Now…am off to read comments to the second installment!

Antiluminous
Antiluminous

[As for VAWA – listen, as I have already said a number of times, I’m not American, I don’t know about it and I won’t pretend to!!!] You have got to be joking! You mean to tell me that you have a computer but can’t type VAWA or The Violence Against Women Act into Google to look it up? That is the problem with this new gender fascism in the west. Deny, deny, deny. For women to deny the existence of, or deny the importance of the VAWA is no different than the Nazi SS denying the existence of Berkenau. Here, let me post an article written by a female that you can read so you don’t think a sub-human (all men) like me is trying to pull your leg. Quote:————————— Sunday, August 21, 2005Biased VAWA Pushes Gender Supremacy The federal Violence Against Women Act (VAWA) is up for reauthorization in 2005. VAWA funds billions of taxpayer dollars to combat violence against women, principally domestic violence (DV). The definition of DV touted by victim advocates runs the gamut from jokes and insults to murder, with “power and control” being the overriding characteristic of the man’s behavior towards the woman. Real… Read more »

sexedman
sexedman

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